Hi Tony, Tim,
Sorry for the delay in response - have been travelling.
Foundation work for the archetypes that would support a general SOAP
and summary have been developed and re-used in previous work, starting
with the 2007 NHS project. The best of these, ie those that we
considered about 70-80% right have already been uploaded to CKM; some
published, some under review, some still as draft. There remain other
archetypes that were developed but still need some more work before
being ready for CKM upload.
It is likely that the
more
generic the proposed scenarios, the component archetypes comprise
published archetypes from CKM; the more specific the proposed scenario,
we may have to settle for a hybrid of published and draft archetypes. If we want to develop the
specific scenarios as outlined by Tim, this will take additional
archetype development work to create new domain specific archetypes.
So we definitely don't
need to start from scratch, but we do need to consider whether we only
want to use agreed archetypes or are happy to use a mixture for this
project. In fact by the time Medinfo rolls around they could all
conceivably be agreed - will our demonstrator systems be able to absorb
the archetypes as they evolve from draft to agreed?
First lets agree on scope, then we can identify existing archetypes
that can be re-used, and those that need to be created from scratch.
Regards
Heather
On 30/08/2009 4:51 AM, Tony Shannon wrote:
Thanks Tim,
Thats useful.
Some other feedback from clinical colleagues would be useful on this.
Certainly the high level use cases you posted , ie Newborn and then 65yo
with Chronic Diseases should be useful.
The detailed candidate content posted up about these 2 I'm not so
concerned about directly replicating.. if we can tackle the archetypes
needed to do SOAP and Summary noting these can form the basis of the
material needed to support both journeys.
The top 10 Emergency Archetype work Heather is currently over seeing
will begin that. Not sure what timetable is realistic for broadening out
CKM input to cover the other material needed for SOAP, but Im sure it
will be months rather than weeks.
It may be that a few of us produce a candidate subset of archetypes
that can handle both SOAP and Summary for the Connectathon purposes
ahead of any ARB/CRB checks, given the time pressures you were
suggesting earlier. Dec 1 gives us about 12 weeks I guess.
My sense is there must be value in agreeing a small set of very basic
set of archetypes over the next weeks for these purposes if that helps
move forward the Connectathon..
Others may have a view on that?
#Heather do you want to comment on this thanks..
Perhaps other can comment on the date time and technical issues for the
connectathon.
I've updated the wiki as we will be aiming to use Opereffa within the
Connectathon, Serefs time will likely be constrained but thankfully he
is certainly willing to try...
Regards,
Tony
Tim Cook wrote:
Hi Tony,
I have added two potential use cases
http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/Connect-a-thon+Details
now I need clinicians to tell the rest of us is this a doable situation.
Can we do these two with the 15-20 archetypes that were discussed below?
If not, what needs to change?
I also need feedback on the other items on that page.
Also, please start making commitments to participate.
http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/Connect-a-thon
+Participants
If we do not have systems signed up and committed to participate then we
are wasting our time in planning the event.
Cheers,
Tim
On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 10:22 +0100, Tony Shannon wrote:
Thanks Tim,
In reply..
I am a believer in keeping things simple where possible.
My sense is that we can demostrate an impressive solution if we offer
support around a single/few patient journey(s) and a limited set of
archetypes.
Let me play devils advocate and suggest all we need to address for the
majority of this is just 2 overlapping groups of archetypes.
1) The Emergency Summary set (Top10) that Heather has been polling for
2) The SOAP note set
Note that these have significant overlap.
That journey could begin in any/many ways..
eg
1)
Newborn .. with a SOAP note
MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:YO6tdfa2xXgJ:faculty.washington.edu/alexbert/MEDEX/Spring/MCHNewBornsoapnote.doc+soap+note+newborns&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Home with a Summary note
2)
To the Primary Care doc.. with a new SOAP note
At end of visit.. an updated Summary
3)
To the ED/other Unit.. where we access the Summary
Then we add a new SOAP note
Then we update the Summary
4)..into old age..
When a Long Term condition requires more SOAP notes
and updates to the Summary
and so on and so on..
OK a very simplistic example, but I hope it illustrates a point.
If some think that its too broad then we could use a subset of that
journey..again only needing with SOAP and Summary.
The top 10 Summary drive has already begin the process of now starting
to explore 15/20 key archetypes, all of which selected can and will
provide the basis for the SOAP note too.
One point your question does raise is whether we are aiming for
archetypes that have more breadth or depth, or a mix in between.
I would be looking for the Medinfo demo set to provide *just enough*
(and no more than that) detail to get the demo across.
I would not expect us to have finalised the definitive archetypes for
Summary/SOAP by then. There will be never be "final" versions of any of
these anwway..always works in progress.
Hope these ideas help..
Tony
Tim Cook wrote:
On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 17:46 +0100, Tony Shannon wrote:
Thanks Tim & co for moving on this.
Tim
You kindly offered to help organise this, please let me know if I can
help in any way.
Tony,
I think that you will be key in leading the charge to be sure that we
have the correct archetypes in place. Maybe even if they haven't all
passed review by then????
We at least need to have a MedInfo2010 Set defined. Probably no later
than 1 December. So we have the list prior to everyone going on the
holiday break. This will provide time for the various application
developers to do template building and testing. Maybe enough time for
CKM/ARB certification as well?
But of course this means that we also need to define the number of use
cases and number of patients we will be demoing.
Comments please........
--Tim
--
Dr. Tony Shannon
Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Leeds Teaching Hospitals
Clinical Lead, Clinical Content Service, NHS Connecting for Health
Chair, Clinical Review Board, openEHR Foundation
+44.789.988 5068 tony.shannon@nhs.net
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